Interview with Brendan Gullifer

Our Library recently spoke to Brendan Gullifer about his novel, SOLD, which has been selected as one of 10 notable books for The Summer Read, an initiative of the State Library of Victoria, presented at Our Library from 1 January to 26 March.

SOLD is a fast-paced and highly entertaining satirical novel, which examines the underbelly of the real estate industry. You will have the chance to meet Brendan Gullifer at Hastings Library on Saturday 30 January.

Don't miss the chance to meet Brendan Gullifer at Hastings Library on Saturday 30 January

In the lead up to his visit, Brendan Gullifer spoke to us about his writing practice, the cathartic nature of writing and the transition from working in journalism to writing fiction.

SOLD is your debut novel, however, you have worked as a journalist and an editor and you have also written the non-fiction book, The Pocketbook of Aussie Patriotism (2007). Was it difficult to make the transition to fiction? Or was this something y0u had dreamt of doing for a long time?
Back in the early nineties, I was in a job that involved a lot of travel. I would spend nights in hotel rooms writing fiction. My dream, my goal, was to write a novel and get it published. It was also to write a novel that did so well commercially I could make a living from it. (That part hasn’t happened yet.)

So writing fiction has been a passion for a while now.

I have been a professional writer, however, for most of my working life. I’ve worked as a newspaper journalist and editor around Australia and overseas. I’ve also worked in advertising and magazine publishing.

Additionally, I taught English as a second language so have a good theoretical and practical grasp of grammar and the rules of language.

But I came to realise that writing fiction requires a different set of skills to any other sort of writing. It requires different muscles, if you like.

While I read a lot of books about the craft, the first fiction classes I took were not until 2002. It was a workshop where people passed around and critiqued work.  Most of the other members were much younger than me.

And they were tenacious, unbounded in their enthusiasm to destroy the writing of fellow classmates.

Often I would go home feeling battered and despondent.

But looking back, it was strangely healthy (in a masochistic way).

It helped me to develop a thick skin, which is important. I also became adept at discovering which people and which criticism were actually helpful.

I developed an ear, I think, where I could pick through the dross and take on board what was really beneficial.

I later did a Masters in Writing at RMIT University in Melbourne. This was much more collegiate and supportive.

When you’re on this journey, there’s nothing better than hanging out with people who get you, and who get what you’re trying to do.

Writing fiction is a long and solitary process. If you wish to get published, it will probably mean a lot of rejection. (More than 300 agents and publishers in Australia and the US rejected my first novel, still unpublished.)

So it’s vital to hang out with people who are on the same journey, who understand what you’re trying to achieve and who are willing to provide support.

The Pocketbook of Aussie Patriotism by Brendan Gullifer

The Pocketbook of Aussie Patriotism was a detour. I was pitching ideas to Melbourne publishing company Black Inc. back in 2005. I told them about a compact guide to English history that had done very well in the UK in 2004. (I’d read about it on the net.) I suggested they do an Australian version. And they asked me if I was interested in compiling it.

That was a surprise. The only history I had studied was at school.  And I was an appallingly disinterested student.

So I dropped my fiction writing and worked on it almost full-time for a year. It did reasonably well and gave me insight into the author-publisher relationship, and how the book industry works.

After it was published, I did more than 30 radio, press and TV interviews and gave more than 50 speeches. So it helped me get comfortable with that side of the publishing business as well.

You worked in the real estate industry for around 18 months. Was SOLD conceived while you were an agent or did you decide to write it at a later period?
I’ve come to realise that one of the things that drives my storytelling is a sense of catharsis. I want to take dark periods of my life and make something positive out of them through writing.

Prolific American writer Stephen King says he sees his writing as a revolutionary act, raising his fist to the world. I’m not a big fan of the horror genre but I love that.

SOLD by Brendan Gullifer. Sleepers Publishing. ISBN: 9781740667340

Writing SOLD was a long process but it happened after I’d left real estate. I was trying to find my way back after 18 very stressful and not particularly successful months. Professionally, I had failed. My health was bad. I had gone backwards financially.

My first novel had been rejected by just about everyone. So I started tinkering with SOLD, and it grew from there. I started taking writing classes, and tried to develop productive writing habits (i.e. writing every day, or almost every day).

Did you consciously decide to write a satirical novel or did it slowly evolve?
It definitely evolved.

I wanted to lift the curtains on the real estate industry, to convey an emotional truth about people who work in it, their motivations, their thinking, how they operate, why they are like they are.

It later surprised me that people found the book funny. (I’m used to telling jokes around the kitchen table and having my teenage kids roll their eyes.)

But I definitely wanted to write something that would be a “good read”, and a page-turner.  There are so many options for our leisure-time these days. I wanted the book to be engaging, to carry readers on a journey.

So I was always conscious of raising the stakes, of lifting the reality of it.

But I never set out to write satire.

I was partly inspired by the Australian television show Frontline. Many called that satire. Having worked in the media, I thought it was very close to the truth.

I know of real estate agents who have bought my book because they feel it accurately reflects what goes on.

But writing the book was a process. It probably went through a dozen drafts. There was a whole section that looked at the rental industry. On the advice of my publishers, I cut that out.

I covered the lounge room wall with little yellow plot-point cards, and spent a month shifting them around, trying different combinations.

One version of the manuscript had about six other characters in it. They never made it into the final cut.

In short, I grappled with every aspect. For most of the time, it felt like pulling teeth, or scratching about in the dirt.

And the final manuscript was 50,000-60,000 words shorter than an earlier version. I became tenacious at cutting stuff out, because every time I did so the work felt intrinsically stronger.

How would you describe your writing practice?
Eclectic. Trying to write fiction every day is the hardest thing. Life interrupts. I’ll do anything not to begin. But if I don’t do it every day, I become restless.

I have had periods where I have written fiction full-time, and that sort of existence had an unreal, otherworldly feel. I hadn’t been published then so it also felt indulgent, and eccentric, like tilting at windmills. Practically anything else felt more important, more grounded, more productive.

Now that I have a full-time job, I would certainly welcome a good clear six months to complete my current project. (The grass is always greener, I guess.)

So now I just grab periods when I can: late at night, sometimes in the morning, at airports. Even if I only write a couple of sentences, it can feel complete, and satisfying.

Always, the hardest thing is starting. Sometimes I tell myself I’ll just open the laptop and “play” around for a couple of minutes… re-read the last few sentences I wrote, add a word here or there. Then I get hooked into it and two or three hours can whizz by.

The less pressure I put on myself, the more relaxed and consistent I am, the better the outcome.

This is a new experience for me. In the past, it was a painful battle against writer’s block and self-doubt. Now I just sit down and do it. I’m less judgmental, and more accepting that writing is a process. The first draft will be lousy. But the work will improve with work.

Where do you usually work?
Anywhere I can. My laptop goes with me everywhere. I write in bed, in cafes, on the lounge, at the kitchen table, still in hotel rooms. I’ll be first in line for a computer I can safely use in the bath.

What made you want to write when you started out?
Being an artist of any sort in this country is very challenging. There’s not much support. You can spend years not getting paid for your efforts, with little or no recognition.

And even when you do break through a bit, it’s seen as peripheral to things, not part of the mainstream, a kind of indulgence.

Even now, friends and acquaintances are far more interested in my day job (I now work in politics) than anything to do with my creative writing.

So the act of writing fiction is a deeply personal thing. It’s hard for me to articulate what drives me.

When I work on a really difficult passage, when I chip away at it and finally get it right, I get such a surge of delight I feel I could dance around the kitchen (and sometimes do).

Which writers have inspired you?
Dirt Music by Tim Winton is a favourite. So is CJ Koch’s Highways to a War. It is one of the most evocative and moving books. I dive into it and I can smell Asia. It is the past I wish I’d had. It is the novel I most wish I had written.

I also love Morris Lurie: a wonderfully angry old man, a splendidly good writer. Flying Home is just marvelous.

George Johnston’s My Brother Jack and Clean Straw for Nothing brilliantly capture the ambivalence of the writer’s life, and the ambivalence of being a writer in Australia.

While studying in America, I was introduced to James Salter. Many consider him a writer’s writer. I love his work. I also love Richard Ford and Philip Roth. John Le Carre is the grand man of thriller writing. I’ve been reading him for years.

I like Michael Chabon. Jonathan Franzen is devastatingly clever. Richard Russo (Empire Falls) has an ability to create a sense of controlled chaos, which I aspire to.

I once went into a bookshop and bought every Elmore Leonard they had.

And off the web I recently obtained a second-hand copy of The Graduate by Charles Webb: such tight, sardonic prose, such succinct and brilliant dialogue.

What are you currently working on?
I have three things that I tell people who wish to write fiction. Read a lot. Write as regularly as you can. Work on a story you are burning to tell.

After at least a dozen false starts on a second novel, I have gone back to the beginning. I have pulled out that first project from the bottom drawer.

I can’t let go of it. It won’t let go of me. I have to work it out of my system.

I can see now why it was rejected. It was gawky and badly written. Too few flashes of radiance with too much indulgence. But it won’t let me go. It has called me back. So I’m working on that. Again.

Don’t miss the opportunity to meet Brendan Gullifer!
Meet the author: Brendan Gullifer
Saturday 30 January, 11am
Hastings Library, 7 High Street
Bookings essential: hastcirc@mornpen.vic.gov.au

Interview with Penny Woodward

Our Library recently spoke to award-winning gardening writer, Penny Woodward, about her new book, Growing easy herbs for beauty, fragrance and flavour, her writing practice, and what fascinates her most about herbs and gardening.

You will have the chance to meet Penny Woodward at Our Library in December. Hear Penny talk about her new book and share tips on how you can spice up your life by planting herbs that are easy to maintain. 

Don't miss the chance to meet Penny Woodward at Hasting Library and Rosebud Library in December

Growing easy herbs is your seventh gardening book and your fourth book dedicated to herbs. What fascinates you most about herbs?
I love plants in general and enjoy being able to connect with the natural world by spending time in the garden, watching how the life cycles of plants, animals and insects interconnect.

I also love to grow my own food and medicine, there is something very satisfying in being able to pick and use something from your own garden. Herbs are an essential part of this because not only are they beautiful in the garden, but they also provide flavours for food, simple medicinal remedies and fragrance in the garden and home. For example, there is no need for your clothes to smell of mothballs: use lavender, pennyroyal and tansy instead. Why buy expensive imported herb teas when you can pick delicious lemon verbena or peppermint fresh from the garden at no cost. Make delightful and delectable gourmet gifts like thyme salt, rosemary honey and violet scented sugar. Improve your health with sage tea or marigold salve and flavour your food with spicy oregano, picquant chives and aromatic basil, to name but a few.

But herbs also occupy the mind. There is so much history and so many stories associated with herbs. When I’m out in the garden picking parsley it makes me smile to remember that on the Island of Guernsey they have a tradition that babies came from the parsley patch where you dig them up with a golden spade, or I remember that country people were able to estimate the time by observing when marigold flowers opened and closed, or I revel in the thought that there was a time when I could have paid my taxes by using mint.

So herbs fascinate me because they touch so many facets of my life, so that my garden not only nurtures my body by providing food but also nurtures my spirit by providing food for thought.

Growing easy herbs for beauty, fragrance and flavour. Hyland House Publishing, RRP: $27.95. ISBN: 9781864471083

In your dedication you mentioned that this book was inspired by your children. How did Growing easy herbs evolve?
I first started writing Growing easy herbs more than 12 years ago when I decided, with my publisher’s approval, that I would write a herb book for children. I’d never done this before so over the next three years I submitted the manuscript and then completely rewrote it three times. Each time the book became a little shorter and more straightforward as the information in the book became more accessible.

 Halfway through my third rewrite, the publishing company changed hands and the new publisher decided he did not want to publish it as a children’s book. He said he would publish it as an introductory book for adults. I decided, that after all the work I had put into it, that I would prefer to publish it as a children’s book – surely I would be able to find another publisher to take it. Little did I realise ….

 In the meantime, there were other books I wanted to write on: Asian herbs and vegetables, Community gardens and Grow your own herbal remedies. After these were published I decided that I really had to do something about the children’s book that had been sitting in my drawer for so long. So I copied some of the beautiful pen and wash illustrations, worked out a contents page, copied some extracts, wrote a covering letter and sent this to every children’s book publisher in Australia.

Over the next 18 months every one replied, but no one wanted to publish it. So I went back to my own publisher (Hyland House Publishing) and started to talk about how I could rewrite the book again as an introductory book for adults. Over the next 12 months as I worked to make this book enticing and interesting to adults, I came to realise that the work I had already done had ensured that there were no extraneous words, that every word and sentence had value. So although it was a long drawn out process, in the end the book was better for it. It taught me again the value of rewriting and rethinking and constantly questioning the premises on which a book is based. The end result is a book that introduces the reader to herbs, whether it is an older adult who has never grown herbs or a young adult or teenager who has never gardened before.

Do you have a daily routine for your writing? Can you describe your writing practice?
My writing has always been fitted into the small spaces in my life. I don’t have a set time, although I know I write better in the mornings. My first book was written before I had children but after that I had to fit my writing around my children, my husband and my other job.

My aunt, who was also a writer, gave me the best advice about how to find the time to write. She said that you should never plan to spend the morning/afternoon/evening writing because something always interrupts you. So instead of achieving several hours of work you just end up cross and frustrated. She said that when you sit down to write, just plan to do 15 minutes or half an hour of writing. Then if that is all you achieve you feel good that you achieved what you set out to do. But often you manage to write for longer and then you feel even better because you have achieved more than you set out to do. Its seems a simple idea but I have found it really helpful. Even though my children now largely look after themselves I am still available to them and to others when I’m needed. And I am still writing, in all my spare moments. I also take all my own photographs.

Where do you usually work? Can you please describe your office.
My office is part of the living room. So while I am working there are usually other people around. If the television or radio are on, then I use headphones and listen to music so that I am not distracted. My desk is an old door with pigeon holes along one side, crammed full of papers and folders, at my back are the serried rows of gardening books. To my left is a view out the window over Westernport Bay, it’s hard not to be distracted. I love watching the weather change and the moods of the sea. But then I have to remember to keep writing. Just at my eye level is top of a small eucalypt. This tree is a favourite of the koalas. Every now and then I will look up and find a koala, with its head poked out the top, eyeing me while it peacefully chews on a leaf.

What made you want to write when you started out?
It was not so much that I wanted to write. I started my own herb nursery in Ballarat and as I researched the herbs I was growing I discovered that there were few books written for Australian conditions. Most of the herb books around relied on folk law and superstition. While these are interesting elements of the study of herbs I felt it was time someone took a more scientific approach. With my degree in Botany I thought maybe I could give it a go. I love doing the research, but find the writing much harder. Ultimately the end result is worth all the effort.

Don’t miss the opportunity to meet Penny Woodward!
Meet the author: Penny Woodward
Wednesday 9 December, 10am
Hastings Library, 7 High Street
Bookings essential: hastcirc@mornpen.vic.gov.au

Meet the author: Penny Woodward
Wednesday 16 December, 10am
Rosebud Library, McDowell Street
Bookings essential: rosecirc@mornpen.vic.gov.au

Copies of Penny’s books will be available to purchase and have signed at the end of these events.

Interview with Roland Perry

Our Library recently spoke to renowned biographer Roland Perry about his new book, The Australian Light Horse, his writing practice and how he was bitten by the reading bug at an early age.

Roland Perry will be at Mornington Library on Friday 16 October at 10:30am to discuss the stirring story of the Australian Light Horse in the Middle East in World War I.

Every Australian has heard of the Australian Light Horse, but not many have ready their story. They were a unique force, first raised during the Boer War and re-formed for World War I. Most of the men were from the outback and knew how to survive and fight in the desert. They led the last great cavalry charge in our military history and triumphed in the taking of Beersheba in 1917. Roland Perry brings their story to life, and tells it with colour, emotion and authority.

Roland Perry: 'There was a compulsion to write this book and put the record straight'

Why were you compelled to write the story of the Australian Light Horse?
I was aware from veterans in my family that the Light Horse had a far greater influence on events in the Middle East (in defeating the Ottoman Empire) in World War I than they had been given credit for in 90 years of writing, documentaries and films by British historians. The brilliant movie by David Lean, Lawrence of Arabia, did not have one Light Horseman in it. T.E. Lawrence in his literary masterpiece, Seven Pillars of Wisdom, for several reasons suppressed the impact of the Light Horse and their outstanding commander, Australian Lt-Gen. Sir Harry Chauvel. Given that Chauvel and his Anzacs defeated two Turkish armies and Lawrence and his Arab force engaged just one Turkish army, the imbalance was clear.

There was a compulsion to write this book and put the record straight.

How long did it take to write and research The Australian Light Horse?
Thirty months.

What kind of research did you undertake?
This book needed a great deal of library, file, museum research in Australia and the UK. The Australian War Memorial, the National Archives and the National Library – all in Canberra – were important, especially in dealing with Australians such as the key figure, Harry Chauvel. In England various institutions were mandatory, with the British Museum housing T.E. Lawrence’s notes and diaries essential. I undertook research in the UK, Egypt, Palestine/Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Arabia, Jordan and Syria.

How would you describe your writing practice?
After 24 books, a clear routine has developed. Once I have done basic research (in this case about eight or nine months) I start writing while never ceasing research. After that I attempt to split the day between writing and research, roughly five to six hours each. The aim quickly is to be doing at least 1,000 words a day, without fail, six days a week. There is increased word output as the manuscript progresses. After a few weeks I am doing 1,300 words a day, and after a couple of months it moves up to around 1,700. The shape of the book becomes clear. Towards the end of the first draft I may be doing 2,000 words a day.

The Australian Light Horse by Roland Perry. Hachette Australia, RRP: $50 (hardback). ISBN: 9780733622724

I revise each day’s work, then I will take a week’s writing – about 30 pages – and read and revise that as well. The process is a constant edit/revision as the book expands. I always say, never ask anyone if he or she is a writer. The correct question is, are you a re-writer (or a reviser)? If the person blinks you know they have never written anything professionally.

Where do you usually work?
In an office at home. I have a two-level modern terrace place with a work area upstairs separate from the living area. I have two libraries; one in the office. It is a pleasant, isolated environment, which you need to be productive. It can feel like a prison at times, so I haunt local (St Kilda/Elwood) cafes during breaks. I usually take the day’s work (always written on computer) print out and read and edit it in a café. I love that part of the day – a good coffee is essential.

What made you want to write when you started out?
I had no pretensions about becoming a writer. I ‘fell’ into working as a journalist on The Age. After five years I wanted to develop that acquired skill. At 26 I left to work in England and began trying a novel. By fluke my first book, a fictional thriller, was an international bestseller. I did not really know what I was doing. I could not write in the professional sense. Most writers, if they are honest, will say it takes about four books to have a ‘voice,’ which is another expression for a ‘style,’ or perhaps ‘enough confidence’. The first book’s success allowed me to attempt a full-time career. I made my own luck to an extent, but was fortunate.

How important have libraries been in your life – from childhood to researching your books?
In grade two (aged seven) at Primary School I was bitten by the reading bug and spent many hours in the school library reading or arranging to borrow. I devoured a book a day. In secondary school this fell away but I revived the ‘bug’ in my 20s.

I have spent a fair proportion of my life in libraries, archives and research institutions in Australia, the UK, France, Russia and the US, culminating in my appointment to the Advisory Council to the National Archives of Australia in Canberra in 2006.

Which writers have inspired you?
A favourite writer is Australia’s Alan Moorehead. He was a fine war correspondent. Others whose style and approach I admire are Diana Georgeff, Phillip Knightley, Les Carlyon, Clive James (non-fiction) and Denis Warner. Tom Keneally is entertaining and with a penchant for Australian stories and history. America’s Gore Vidal is a supreme essayist. Graham Greene and John Le Carre made a lasting impression.

A common theme of most of these authors that appeals is the spareness of their writing. Their economic use of the language, wit and a lack of pretension are keys to my appreciation of them.

Their writing has an integrity, and therefore an authority, that is admirable.

Don’t miss the opportunity to meet Roland Perry!
Friday 16 October, 10:30am
Mornington Library, Vancouver Street
Refreshments served
Bookings essential: morncirc@mornpen.vic.gov.au

This free event is presented in conjunction with Farrell’s Bookshop. Copies of The Australian Light Horse will be available to purchase and have signed.